Deep Discipleship Summary
Welcome to the Soil &Roots podcast, journeying together into deep discipleship. Iโm Brian Fisher, and this is Episode 133, The Love Which Surpasses Knowledge.
And this is the last episode of Season 6!
Weโre going to wrap up this season with a sweeping overview of everything weโve covered so far to set us up for the next season, which should be amazing.
If you are one of those crazy people who have listened to or watched every episode so far, a huge thank you from the team here. You are obviously pretty serious about deep discipleship and exploring some parts of life that donโt get a lot of press, so kudos to you!
If youโve jumped in somewhere in the middle of these six seasons or you just pick up an episode now or then that interests you, thatโs great, too. Glad to have you with us.
As I move through the high points of the last three years of discussions, Iโm also going to add some new color because, frankly, the team here has a better understanding of what weโre wrestling with than we did when we started.
We always recommend that anyone new to the Soil & Roots community start with Episode 1, since the episodes and seasons build on each other.
However, if you are new but donโt want to go back and check out 132 other episodes, this just might be the best episode with which to start. So, letโs dig in, take a trip down memory lane, and get our heads and hearts ready for the next stage of our spiritual journey.
The Great Omission
The Soil & Roots adventure began in 2021, when I began wrestling with my lifelong walk with Jesus, the role and purpose of the modern church, and Christianity and discipleship in general.
2020 was a difficult year for most people, and it was for us, though not just because of the pandemic. Jessica and I lost our jobs, our careers, most of our friends, and virtually all of our community.
It was devastating in lots of ways, and I know many of you have been through similar circumstances. Perhaps it was a divorce, an illness, a death to someone close to you, a betrayal, or a job loss. Most of us will hit at some point what we call โthe wallโ โ a time of suffering and trial that may cause us to question if our hearts and heads are on the same page.
Are God’s promises really true? If so, why donโt I seem to experience this abundant life, this perfect peace, this love that surpasses knowledge?
Some of us ignore the wall, others deconstruct their faith or their lives because of it, and some press through it with the hope that more peace, joy, and love will meet them on the other side.
During my โwallโ, I came across the writings of a theologian and philosopher named Dallas Willard. I had never heard of him before.
Though he died in 2013, Willardโs writings and teachings have become well known in many parts of the world. I suspect he has had more influence after his death than before, which is generally the mark of someone pretty unique.
It was in one of his books that I first came across the term โThe Great Omission,โ and itโs a term Iโve said here about a thousand times.
Willardโs premise was that modern Christianity, including its thousands of churches and institutions, struggles to produce genuine disciples, despite the clear intention of the Great Commission.
In fact, he said it was a fairly new phenomenon that someone could be a Christian without being a disciple.
His point was that few people have centered their lives around the inner transformation of becoming more like Jesus. He had yet to find a church or organization that partnered with people so that, over time, they might become less angry, more forgiving, more generous, more relationally shrewd, more self-aware, and more relationally secure.
Where were the churches to help us become so intimate, so wrapped up in Jesus that self-giving love just pours out of us? That we really practice unity? That culture is being transformed around us just because we exude the person of Jesus so powerfully?
Years after Willard wrote the book The Great Omission, we seem to find ourselves in the same spot. Is modern Christianity interested in making converts? Many times. In educating people? Without question. In engaging us in service? Yes. In growing institutions? For sure.
But in helping us experience an inner transformation so that our lives become more like His? Eh, not so much.
Sometimes weโre criticized here because we talk so much about The Great Omission and the problems that result. We should be more positive! We should spin this situation a different way!
Well, we canโt come together to solve a challenge if we donโt articulate what that challenge is.
The consequences of The Great Omission are severe. Not only do people following Jesus often struggle with anxiety, fear, insecurities, fractured relationships, loneliness, celebrity worship, people pleasing, perfectionism, dependency on performance, and disconnection, but the culture is suffering. Just watch the news.
The Head and the Heart
Weโve uncovered several reasons for the Great Omission, and we wonโt review them all today.
One worth reviewing is that we live in an age that disproportionately values and prizes intellect. Though Renรฉ Descartes was apparently an earnest and intelligent man, his conclusion that โI think, therefore I amโ has become a cornerstone of Western philosophy and thought.
We find this wrong philosophical assumption everywhere, including the church.
We deeply prize information. In fact, itโs one of the most valuable currencies of our time โ often more powerful than money.
Modern Christianity is often based on the unconscious assumption that the point of the Christian life is to become educated. Biblical literacy is at the forefront of most related institutions and programs.
Itโs somewhat ironic that we live in a time of unprecedented access to the Bible, Bible teaching, sermons, lectures, and related information. We have access to limitless biblical material on our phones.
Yet we are one of the most biblically illiterate generations in church history.
The American Bible Societyโs State of the Bible 2025 report found that only about 41 percent of Americans open a Bible on their own, even a few times a yearโdown from nearly half just a few years ago.
Pew Research found that most U.S. adults could answer only a handful of basic questions about Scripture correctly, and Barnaโs Gen Z Study concluded that only 4% of young people today hold what they define as a biblical worldview. In other words, fewer and fewer peopleโeven within the churchโcan explain the basic storyline of Scripture or connect their beliefs and habits to a biblical framework.
Yet we are not brains on sticks. Biblical literacy is important, but plenty of corrupt people know their Scriptures well, be it some Pharisees in Jesusโ time or the ongoing stream of fallen celebrity pastors today.
Here, author Judith Hougen jumps in and reminds us of the wonderful complexity of being human.
She claims that true belief, truths that form us from the inside out, must be believed by both the head and the heart. Itโs one thing to intellectually agree to a statement of faith. Itโs another for our hearts to experience that statement of faith.
And thereโs the kicker: our heads learn through collecting and assessing information. Our hearts donโt learn that way. Our hearts โlearnโ through relationship and experience.
The Power of Ideas
What sort of things sit at the bottom of our hearts that so often contradict whatโs sitting in our heads? We probably arenโt aware of all that sits down there, but we do know two things: desires and ideas.
Which brings us to the heartbeat of Soil & Roots, and that is the realm of ideas. Thatโs what Soil & Roots means. Our hearts are our roots, and our roots are planted in the soil of ideas.
An idea is an assumption, conclusion, or principle in which our hearts are rooted, though we generally arenโt aware of it.
Considering Dallas Willard, as well as numerous theologians and philosophers, maintain that ideas are one of the most powerful forces on the planet, itโs surprising we hear almost nothing about them in modern Christianity. Itโs shocking. If we are powered and governed more by ideas than anything else, shouldnโt we be exploring them?
In fact, one way to describe deep discipleship is the inner transformation of our ideas from dark to light, but not simply through education. Our ideas are formed and reformed primarily through relationships and experiences.
What if our ideas โ these unconscious experienced realities in our hearts โ donโt align with our beliefs?
It is very possible to hold to intellectual beliefs about God, ourselves, others, and creation, and yet also be possible that our hearts hold to very different ideas. Most of us exist in this tension โ our heads believe one thing while our hearts hold to another.
In fact, our ideas about God are more important than our stated beliefs. How can that be true?
In his book, Surrender to Love, David Benner writes,
โTake a moment and try a simple exercise. The results will tell you a great deal about the nature of your spiritual journey. Imagine God thinking about you. What do you assume God feels when you come to mind? What I ask people to do this, a surprising number of people say that the first thing they assume God feels is disappointment. Others assume that God feels anger. In both cases, these people are convinced that it is their sin that first catches Godโs attention. I think they are wrong โ and I think the consequences of such a view of God are enormous.โ
Benner is inviting us to ask a curious question that probes beneath our beliefs to our ideas โ the experienced realities in which we actually live. Many, many people who follow Jesus will tell you they believe that God loves them unconditionally. Those same people, when presented with Bennerโs question, will often respond in the opposite way.
Deep Discipleship
Richard Foster once commented that the world doesnโt need more intelligent or gifted people. The world needs deeper people.
What does that mean? What is a deep person, and why do we need them so much?
A deep person is simply someone who is intentionally becoming more attuned or awake to Godโs ideas, othersโ ideas, their own ideas, and those found in culture. Meaning, they are learning to listen very carefully to hearts, not just to words. To put it another way, they are becoming more like Jesus.
We call them deep disciples. And that is the whole mission of Soil & Roots โ to help cultivate people who are becoming increasingly attuned to God, others, and themselves. To become people of depth.
The deeper the person, the more we become like Jesus from the inside out. We become more securely attached to God. We begin to view the world, people, and cultures very differently from most people. We find ourselves forgiving more easily, loving more freely, giving more radically, and trusting more implicitly. Our anxiety and fears lessen, and our capacity for joy and for self-giving love increases.
Depth, not necessarily breadth.
Modern Christianity is generally fascinated with breadth โ the number of church attendees, books sold, conversions, baptisms, and so on.
The Western church is obsessed with breadth โ they call it multiplication. No one seems to ask what weโre multiplying, though itโs normally converts. That doesnโt seem to have worked out so well.
Depth, however, canโt be programmed or systematized. Itโs relational, messy, long-term, and difficult. It has ups and downs, joys and sorrows.
The First Step towards Depth
So, a deep person is intentionally becoming more attuned to the heart of God, others, and themselves, primarily by taking the time to explore these ideas, even when they are in tension with our beliefs.
Iโve admitted that it takes some time and practice to uncover these ideas. You may recall I compared it to the fuzzy posters and images called stereograms that were so popular during the 90โs. To see the 3D image hidden in what appears to be a random picture, you have to practice training your eyes to relax and look into the picture. Finding ideas works somewhat the same way.
There is an irony here, though, in that the path to depth doesnโt start with doing, busyness, accomplishment, or performance. It begins with receiving.
Again, hereโs Benner:
โWe miss the point when we simply try to do what he tells us to do. And we miss the point when we simply try to follow the pattern of his lifeโฆgenuinely encountering Love is not the same thing as inviting Jesus into your heart, joining or attending a church, or doing what Jesus commands. It is the experience of love that is transformational. You simply cannot bask in divine love and not be affected.โ
This journey into depth, into genuine discipleship, starts with basking in divine love.
And basking in divine love cannot simply be an intellectual conclusion โ it must be experienced in the heart, which means that receiving this type of love transforms the ideas settled there, most notably our ideas about God and ourselves.
Three Primary Problems
This path to depth also involves resolving three challenges weโve discussed here: story, community, and purpose. Weโve called them the Three Primary Problems: the Discipleship Dilemma, the Formation Gap, the Forgotten Kingdom. Story, community, purpose.
Discipleship Dilemma
To become a deep disciple means that, at times, we take an inward journey. We explore our hearts, our ideas, our true desires, and our stories. This may well be the most powerful cause of the Great Omission โ there is very little permission or guidance given to help us take this inward journey. Many followers of Jesus arenโt self-aware.
Itโs called double knowledge โ our capacity to know God and His ideas is intimately intertwined with our willingness to know ourselves and our ideas. We canโt have one without the other.
This term is often associated with John Calvin, though he tended to emphasize the exploration of our sin and dependency on God. But self-knowledge goes beyond that, and many thinkers throughout church history have contributed to this concept: Augustine, Ignatius, Kierkegaard, Aquinas, and, more recently, Curt Thompson and Henri Nouwen.
True self-knowledge is the Spiritโs revelation of who we are before God โ created in His image, distorted by sin, yet invited into restoration, calling, and communion with divine love. It involves getting to know all aspects of our human person, including those deeply settled elements weโve explored, such as our ideas and desires.
Thatโs why exploring our stories is so essential to discipleship. So much of who we are is formed in our first few years of life. If we donโt take the time and effort to understand why and how our hearts were formed the way they are, we exclude a vital component of self-knowledge, and that impacts our capacity to know God.
Formation Gap
The second challenge we come together to solve is the Formation Gap. Put simply, few of us are part of any sort of gatherings and communities that exist to help us become more like Jesus from the inside out. And yes, that includes those of us who attend a church.
If you look at any type of ecosystem that humans construct to help one person become more like another, youโll find five common characteristics: time, habit, community, intimacy, and instruction. Professional sports teams, college, cults, marriage, early childhood, recovery programs, the early church, the military โ they all embed these five elements into their cultures.
The modern church, however, rarely features all five, and thus, discipleship is often stunted as a result.
The solution is straightforward โ recapture intentionally formative communities. Easier said than done, as weโve discussed at length, but I have argued that genuine Christian communities should look very, very radical compared to most modern gatherings in our age.
Forgotten Kingdom
Story, community, and purpose. What is our purpose? There are many good answers to the question, but the one weโve explored has to do with the primary reason Jesus said He came โ to establish His kingdom. That is the good news he proclaimed.
Yet itโs good news we rarely hear about in modern Christianity. We hear the good news about the fact that our sins are forgiven, and thank God they are. But if you line up 10 people who follow Jesus and ask them what the Kingdom is, you might get 8-10 different answers!
Thatโs very surprising, considering the word โGospelโ is usually paired with โof the kingdomโ in the Bible. The good news of the kingdom.
The kingdom is Godโs reign through Godโs people over Godโs place. And the purpose of His reign is to make everything new. So, our purpose is to join with our king as He renews, redeems, and reconciles everything. Education, government, business, church, family, the arts, and even, yes, the media.
To become people of depth, people attuned to God and ourselves, people who join with Jesus to transform these powerful, hidden ideas that govern individuals and cultures, we press into our stories, we reform intentionally vibrant, formative communities, and we ingest and promote the purpose of our king โ to make all things new.
If this sounds a bit more complex than learning more about the Bible, well, it is. Itโs an adventure well worth taking.
What is He Like?
Still, if the purpose of deep discipleship is to become more like Jesus, it raises the question, what is he like?
He is everything mentioned in 1 Corinthians 13, and he is the ultimate example of the fruits of the Spirit found in Galatians.
Plus, we can catch a glimpse of what it means to become more like Him, and thus the best version of ourselves, by simply observing him. By imagining ourselves in the Gospel stories and by watching how he relates to God, others, himself, and creation.
He is the most relationally secure human in history. He is utterly sure and safe in who he is.
He is securely attached to his Father. He rests utterly and completely in his role as the beloved.
He isnโt hurried, isnโt stressed, isnโt worried. He is relaxed, in control. He is the wisest and most relationally shrewd person to walk the planet.
So, when we consider becoming more like him, can we envision ourselves in a similar way?
Can we envision a life of singular purpose, of healthy relational boundaries, of little anxiety or fear? Can we envision a life where we feel safe because our trust in a good God is so deep that it would be silly to feel otherwise?
Can we envision a life where, of course, we are tempted, but the idea of engaging in harmful behavior is just unappealing? A life where prayer is so rich, so overflowing with the presence of the Father that we donโt want to leave?
I admit, itโs kind of tough to envision this type of life, at least it is for me. Yet isnโt this what Jesus talks about when he mentions the abundant life, or what Paul refers to when he prays that we comprehend the love of God which surpasses knowledge, and that we be filled to all the fullness of God?
Where Do We Go From Here?
How is the Great Omission solved? By becoming people of depth. I donโt think itโs through a marketing campaign or revival, or a crusade or political event. Itโs just a process of intentionally becoming more attuned to God, others, ourselves, and Godโs good planet, of accepting Godโs kindness to experience Him more.
Generally speaking, our invitation to this type of depth comes through the form of some suffering, a wall. And pressing into the wall is tough, but itโs made easier when we join hands with a trusted friend or two and face our sufferings in community.
Itโs a lifelong journey. Depth doesnโt arrive overnight. In fact, sometimes it seems to take forever. But it does come, and we begin to live a type of life we otherwise thought unlikely, if not impossible.
Thanks for being with me today as weโve sauntered down memory lane. I hope this episode was helpful to perhaps congeal some of the things weโve explored over the past few years.
I donโt want to say too much about Season 7, though. If youโve enjoyed our journey so far, I think youโll benefit from sticking around.
And thanks again for sticking around. Itโs been a joy to explore deep discipleship with you so far, and I canโt wait to see where this adventure takes us.
